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	<title>Daniel Watrous &#187; conversation</title>
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	<link>http://www.danielwatrous.com</link>
	<description>Bridging the gap between internet technology and internet marketing</description>
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		<title>Thoughts on croud-sourced logo design</title>
		<link>http://www.danielwatrous.com/thoughts-on-croud-sourced-logo-design</link>
		<comments>http://www.danielwatrous.com/thoughts-on-croud-sourced-logo-design#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Aug 2010 17:41:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Consulting]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[99designs]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[branding]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[conversation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[croud sourcing]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[design]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[e-mail list]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[framing]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[logo]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[outsourcing]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danielwatrous.com/?p=758</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The following fragments come from a conversation with a client who was using 99designs to produce a logo for her website. I thought they would be useful and instructive. Hopefully my designer friends will chime in and tell me if my advice was sensible, but the most important part in my view was the opportunity [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The following fragments come from a conversation with a client who was using 99designs to produce a logo for her website. I thought they would be useful and instructive. Hopefully my designer friends will chime in and tell me if my advice was sensible, but the most important part in my view was the opportunity to include their large user base and build trust and relationship through the process.</p>
<h2>How to determine the award amount</h2>
<p>Go and look at several other logo design contests that have taken place recently. As you look do this, take a minute to notice the relationship between the quality of the submissions and the award amount. Your gut will tell you which logos are high quality and which aren&#8217;t. That will help you judge how much money to put into the logo design.</p>
<h2>How to make a designer take interest in your contest</h2>
<p>Most logos (or identities <a href="http://www.danielwatrous.com/framing-or-branding">Framing or Branding</a>) are designed to convey a specific message. That&#8217;s the point after all. But in some cases, there isn&#8217;t a message as much as an identity or personality. In those cases I&#8217;ve observed that instead of a logo it&#8217;s more common to see stylized text (many designers call this type treatment). Stylized text is a big deal and some companies have paid thousands of dollars to have a font made just for them.</p>
<p>One problem with novice designers is that they tend to use symbols and marks that don&#8217;t actually mean anything or add any relevant value to the logo (<a target="blank" href="http://elbowroomdesign.com/musings/357/swoosh-abuse-the-compendium/">swoosh abuse</a> and <a target="blank" href="http://www.julieandcompany.com/new_ideas_swooshes.htm">differentiation</a>). There&#8217;s really no reason to put a symbol of some sort into a logo unless it communicates something.</p>
<p>So if you think about other feminine brands, you&#8217;ll see that there&#8217;s a tendency to choose a type treatment as a logo or trademark. Think: <a target="blank" href="http://www.marthastewart.com/">Martha Stewart</a>, <a target="blank" href="http://www.lanebryant.com/">Lane Bryant</a>, <a target="blank" href="http://www.macys.com/">Macy&#8217;s</a></p>
<p>One thing to notice is that in each case they&#8217;ve used a sans serif font. They also use the same color rather than multiple colors. They also mix bold and regular size fonts to accentuate the font. Many of them use either all caps or all lowercase. Colors are nondescript and don&#8217;t call attention to themselves. They&#8217;re typically very simple (not busy).</p>
<p>If it&#8217;s hard for to identify what your message is, or if you don&#8217;t have a single message to convey then you might be best to go with a type treatment.</p>
<p>Another thing I would point out is that the websites for some of the brand names that I suggested are very simple and match the logo. If the logo (or type treatment) really will become your identity, then you want to think about how it will affect the theme on your site. They need to compliment one another.</p>
<h2>What if nothing grabs you</h2>
<p>Go here: <a target="blank" href="http://99designs.com/contests">http://99designs.com/contests</a>. On the right (and down a bit) you&#8217;ll see a panel with Recent Winning Designers. Click on these and look at their recent wins (like this <a target="blank" href="http://99designs.com/users/376750">http://99designs.com/users/376750</a> and this <a target="blank" href="http://99designs.com/people/oxy">http://99designs.com/people/oxy</a>). When you find one that looks attractive to you, ask that specific designer to take part in your contest.</p>
<p>I know I mentioned this before and I really think you&#8217;re CRAZY if you don&#8217;t do it. You should send an email to your entire list telling them about the competition and give them a link right to it. Let them vote. Let them vent. Give them a post where they can leave comments. Let them submit designs and win the award money. If you don&#8217;t leverage the interest of the people that have given you their email then you&#8217;re really passing up a gold mine. Who else in all the world is going to know your brand better than them?</p>
<p>When the project has only a couple days left, go and raise the winning bid amount. I&#8217;m not sure how much to raise it, but add another $40 on there, and (THIS IS IMPORTANT) provide new direction in the form of &#8220;after seeing all these designs we realized that we really want XYZ, so we increased the price and would love fresh new submissions&#8221;. I think that people that submitted before will be notified of the new higher price and come read why. At this point you should send out another email to your entire list telling them the same thing. Make another post where they can comment on the new logos that have been submitted.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t include your list in the process then you&#8217;re passing up a HUGE opportunity to bond with your list. How often do you get to shape the way a company or service looks, let alone one that you love? This might be the biggest opportunity you&#8217;ve ever had. You could even use this to build your list by encouraging them to send the contest and site to their creative friends and family.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t miss the chance to include your list in this. The quality so far isn&#8217;t all that good, but it&#8217;s being submitted by people in other countries who don&#8217;t know and love your site (it might not even be a cultural fit where they live). How could they possibly hit the nail on the head.</p>
<p>One more thing. Be sure to personally invite designers that you know. They know you, your &#8216;brand&#8217; and they&#8217;re creative. They also probably wouldn&#8217;t mind winning the prize money.</p>
<h2>What should the email sound like</h2>
<p>This email was very specific to the target audience and the personality of the site owner. You should definitely work hard to match the voice and content of an email that you might send to the audience that you&#8217;re approaching. In other words, you might not want to just copy and paste this, but you can decide.</p>
<p>By the way, there are some really crucial mental triggers (and emotional triggers) in this copy that are designed to increase the bond with the list and help them feel important. See if you can feel where they are.</p>
<p>[begin email]<br />
SUBJECT: We need your help!</p>
<p>Hi,</p>
<p>This might sound a bit rushed, but we&#8217;re in over our heads (again). We could just slog through this one on our own, but we think you might be uniquely qualified to help us solve our problem. Could you do us a small favor?</p>
<p>You see, while we&#8217;ve been working hard to make great content for [sitename], the site &#8216;logo&#8217; (if you even call it that) has gone a bit, ummm, stale. We thought it looked great when we started the site, but sooooo much has happened.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve spent hours (days, weeks and months really) on projects and tutorials and dozens of our readers have contributed wonderful articles too. We&#8217;ve been through site crashes and technology foibles. We&#8217;ve changed things a few times and just can&#8217;t seem to find the right look.</p>
<p>But then we realized that you are our &#8216;look&#8217;. That&#8217;s why we think you&#8217;re the best person to help us right now.</p>
<p>What we want to find is some type of &#8216;logo&#8217;, for lack of a better word. Something that would represent the lives of the women behind our blog and the values we all represent.</p>
<p>The bad news is that our attempts so far just haven&#8217;t produced the results we hoped for. In fact, you can see them here:</p>
<p>[linktodesigncontest]</p>
<p>So how can you help? There are a few ways (and you don&#8217;t even have to be a designer).</p>
<p>The most simple way to help us out would be to [reply to this email/post a comment at link] telling us what you think [sitename] has become and what it means to you. Just open up and let us know why you follow our blog and what it has done for you.</p>
<p>If you feel like you have an eye for design you could go to our design contest above and vote on the submissions or even submit your own. Be as creative as you like, since we really are all about you. If you have the best design you&#8217;ll win the prize money too!</p>
<p>The last way that you can help us would be to forward this email to your family and friends that you think might have a good design idea for us.</p>
<p>[sitename] is really all about you. Thank you. We really can&#8217;t wait to hear what you think and incorporate that into who we become.</p>
<p>Sincerely,<br />
[end email]</p>
<h2>What to do if the comments go south?</h2>
<p>I think the comments are great. I would keep feeding into them and draw attention to it. People are much more likely to comment and contribute if you do.</p>
<p>As it turns out, even bad comments are good (in many cases). The negative things people would say about your company, logo or overall identity are a big deal when it comes to your own internal evolution. Controversy is also one of the most effective ways to encourage conversation.</p>
<p>Bear in mind that you&#8217;ve gotten so many more submissions than I&#8217;ve seen in any other contest. For example, [otherprominentimguru] just did a re-branded logo for [hissitename] and he only got 72 entries (and he sent an email out to tens of thousands of people). You&#8217;ve gotten 482. That shows that you&#8217;ve successfully engaged your audience.</p>
<p>By the way, I can see several elements of different logos that I really like. You can point these out to each designer and see which one combines them best.</p>
<h2>Take away</h2>
<p>A logo or brand is something that grows, just like a tree or a person. It changes over time. MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL, your brand only exists in the mind of the consumer. No matter how much money you spend, how well matched your colors are or any other combination of clever marketing tactics, your brand is determined by what your consumers think of you. You may as well include them in the decoration of your site.</p>
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		<title>Comment Spam vs. Relevance</title>
		<link>http://www.danielwatrous.com/comment-spam-vs-relevance</link>
		<comments>http://www.danielwatrous.com/comment-spam-vs-relevance#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 16:21:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Technology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[blog]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[blogging]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[comment spam]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[comments]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[conversation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Internet Marketing]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danielwatrous.com/?p=173</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Comments are a really great way to facilitate conversation on a blog. I actually love the comments I get on my sites, when they&#8217;re real. The problem is that sometimes it can be difficult to tell when something is worthwhile and when it&#8217;s not. The spammers are getting better at making you wonder whether or [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comments are a really great way to facilitate conversation on a blog.  I actually love the comments I get on my sites,<em> when they&#8217;re real</em><span>.  The problem is that sometimes it can be difficult to tell when something is worthwhile and when it&#8217;s not.  The <span>spammers</span> are getting better at making you wonder whether or not something is worthwhile.</span></p>
<p>As a result, I&#8217;ve come up with some rules of thumb that help me determine what makes it on my site.  I use these same rules when deciding what to post on other sites too.  For me it all comes down to relevance and whether or not anything is being added to the conversation.</p>
<h2>Comment Scenarios</h2>
<p>Imagine, for example, that you go over to a friends house to watch a live sports event.  In an private setting, like his house, he knows you and some comments are mutually understood.  For example, let&#8217;s suppose you complain about one of the refs and he says something like</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Wow, you said that perfectly.  I&#8217;m not sure I could have said it that well, but I totally agree with you.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>That may actually add to the conversation, <em>at your friends house</em>.  Now, strictly speaking, it adds nothing new and only vaguely supports what your friend said.  It doesn&#8217;t even say anything about the ref!</p>
<p>Now imagine that you were at a restaurant watching the same game and you make the same comment about the ref.  This time, some guy a few tables away says what I quoted above.  Already it&#8217;s a bit more awkward because you don&#8217;t know the guy and his comment doesn&#8217;t really add to the conversation.  Furthermore, it&#8217;s not a <em>natural</em> way to have a conversation.</p>
<h3>Natrual conversation</h3>
<p>What would be natural?  Let&#8217;s continue on with the restaurant idea above.  The people that are most likely to comment will have both proximity and interest.  They&#8217;ll be engaged in the game (or at least watching it).  If they make a comment it will likely be on topic and add to the conversation.  For example, this comment might be more relevant and something that would socially make sense:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;I agree that ref&#8217;s a real jerk.  He was banned last season for making some bonehead calls during a playoff game and if he&#8217;s not careful he&#8217;ll get bumped again.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Whew!  Wasn&#8217;t that refreshing?  I can see how that would really add to the conversation.  It&#8217;s relevant, on topic and would fit into another social environment.</p>
<p>Now there is a certain appeal to the idea of the one-giant-global-conversation that the social platforms promise, but it doesn&#8217;t invalidate the long standing rules of social engagement.  <strong>If it wouldn&#8217;t make sense in a public forum, like a conference or a restaurant or a seminar, then it probably doesn&#8217;t make sense online either.</strong></p>
<p><span>So for blog owners, if the comment doesn&#8217;t add relevant, on topic information to the conversation (the conversation is whatever the post talks about), then <em>don&#8217;t approve it</em>.  For blog <span>commenters</span>, if you really like something on a blog and you have no idea who the blog owner is, do one of two things.  If you have something relevant and on topic to add to the conversation then post a comment.  If not, do the blog owner a favor and create a link back to his site (e.g. <span>digg</span>, <span>stumbleupon</span>, <span>facebook</span>, twitter, etc.).  If it doesn&#8217;t add to the conversation on my blog, I won&#8217;t approve it.</span></p>
<p><span>For fun, here are a few of the non-contributing zeros that have commented on my site just today.  This post could go on for years since there&#8217;s so much junk.  Thank heavens for <span><a title="Akismet spam protection" href="http://akismet.com/" target="_blank">Akismet</a></span>.</span></p>
<h2>Garbage comment examples</h2>
<p>This comment had a link to a medications for male erection problems.  I&#8217;m glad he thinks I&#8217;m a good writer though.</p>
<blockquote><p>Are you a professional journalist? You write very well.</p></blockquote>
<p>This comment might be from someone that really liked what I was writing about.  But I have no idea who he is and so his comment lends neither increased credibility nor content to the subject of the post.</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Pretty insightful post. Never thought that it was this simple after all. I had spent a good deal of my time looking for someone to explain this subject clearly and you’re the only one that ever did that. Kudos to you! Keep it up&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>I should take this next comment and enter it in the <a href="http://www.bulwer-lytton.com/"><span><span>Bulwer</span>-<span>Lytton</span> fiction contest</span></a><span>, unless the <span>spammer</span> found it there in the first place.   It adds nothing whatsoever to the (any) conversation, but could seem an admiring reinforcement to any <span>blogger&#8217;s</span> post.  I hate spam!</span></p>
<blockquote><p><span>&#8220;i would not have suspected this was awesome a couple of years back but yet its funny just how time evolves the method by which you see varying creative concepts, many thanks regarding the piece of writing it happens to be pleasing to go through something clever occasionally instead of the usual rubbish <span>mascarading</span> as a blog on the <span>internet</span>, cheers&#8221;</span></p></blockquote>
<h2>Stop comment spam</h2>
<p>If you&#8217;ve unwittingly (yeah right) been sucked into the idea that leaving flowery, useless comments on blogs and websites is somehow showing kindness to the owners of those sites, just stop.  If you have something relevant and on topic to add then by all means, add it.  If you&#8217;re not sure, ask yourself what you might do if you overheard the conversation in a public place and act accordingly.  That&#8217;s still not a guarantee that I&#8217;ll approve your comment.</p>
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